Disclaimer:
This podcast mentions mental illness and suicide, which listeners may find distressing. Please take a break or stop the recording if you are upset while listening and reach out to Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636 if you need someone to talk to.
Rachel Towell:
Hi, my name is Rachel Towell and I am a national distribution manager at MetLife, Australia. Mental health and suicide are understandably uncomfortable topics for many people. And sometimes, it's easier to avoid discussing them altogether. It is no secret that there have been many changes to the financial services industry in recent years. Changes, which no doubt, have had an impact on the financial adviser, their business, and their family. In the interest of privacy for the families involved, all names in this interview have been changed or omitted altogether. Joining me today on this interview is Michelle.
Michelle has had the courage to share with you, her personal experience, and how her husband took his own life. I cannot thank Michelle enough for giving her time and sharing her story. It is one that is hard to hear, but one which needs to be heard. After many years of working in the industry, financial advisers are to me, my husband, my friends, my colleagues, and individuals who are striving to protect families in their time of need. They work tirelessly to protect us. So now, is the time to help them be heard and to offer them our support. I now ask Michelle to share her story.
Michelle:
Thanks, Rachel.
Rachel:
Tell us a little bit about your husband, Michelle.
Michelle:
So, my husband was working in the industry for about 12 years, I believe. So, probably since I arrived in Australia. He joined the industry in 2007, and was his absolute passion ... Was to help people design their life through building wealth around them, and have the security to be able to make choices, and the money shouldn't get in the way of their dreams. And that's always have been his main driving force behind everything that he's done for the last 12, 13 years.
Rachel Towell:
If you could talk to me a little bit about what some of the pressures your husband faced.
Michelle:
So, my husband ... So, he worked in the industry for 10 years before he set up his own business. And when he did, he started from zero. He didn't buy a book or anything. And in two, three years, he built this amazing business, which he was very proud of, I was very proud of, his family was very proud of, his clients were happy. And he built a very progressive financial planning business in a sense with there was no papers or paperless ... He was in a membership style charging. So, it was a very sustainable, very robust business. And we were just very, very proud of it.
Michelle:
I think he was on his own for a good, maybe six to eight months until he hired his first full-time employee. And then, that employee was with him for a year and a bit. That employee left, and he hired someone else, not in the office. He hired someone else that worked remotely, which was fantastic, because where we are, it's so hard to find good, qualified people. He wanted someone just to guide the business through, and support him over the next little bit, until he was ready to grow again. Then probably about ... a year ago from February this year, when he died, all the changes in the industry, and the change of employees as well, that had an effect on him and the business, and all of that. It started to take a very big toll on him.
Rachel:
Yes, there's been a lot of changes to our industry in recent times. And you explained a little bit of the pressures after the changes in our industry. Do you feel the pressure was different in more recent times?
Michelle:
It was. I think the pressure really built probably early last year when there was talks around education requirements coming in, that was probably what caused the majority of the stress, especially for him ... Someone with 10, 12 years experience, which has the qualifications they needed at the time, a successful business. And all of a sudden, you've got to pretty much go back to school, to do things that it probably doesn't teach you anything, apart from giving you a piece of paper, they say, "You're good enough to do this job." It's something that really took its toll. And my husband was one of those people that he really cared, and he wanted to make sure things were done correctly, and he was by the book, and everything was done well. So, last year alone, he said three exams, was running a business, having a family, and being able to have some sort of personal life at the same time. There was a huge 12 months for us, in our family.
Rachel:
Now, Michelle, tell me a little bit about your family. We've spoken a little bit about your husband's business, but tell me a little bit about your family.
Michelle:
So, I'm also in sort of, in a way, in the financial services industry, as well. I'm not a financial planner, I'm an accountant, and we have a five-year-old son. My background means that I could help him a lot in the business not the day-to-day operations, but I used to do more of the accounting and the finance side of the business. Until last year, we were the sort of family that will go probably go away every six weeks, to two months, go on a long weekend. A week here, a week there. I'm from overseas, so we'll go overseas pretty much every year. I don't even remember when we went away last year, because he always had to work. And there was always something to do outside of hours, that would not allow us to just take a breather, and regroup, and reset.
Michelle:
I also took on a very good position with my career last year. So, I was under my own pressures as well, but we were heading towards our dreams, and head towards our goals that we set for us, and all was relatively good until probably ... I think the first time I noticed something was wrong was probably the second time of the year, just after he sat the FASEA exam. There's when I started to see something was not quite right, but we got over it. We had a bit of a chat, and we took a break. We actually took a break. We went away for a week, and that was really nice, and we thought that we were sort of on the good side of it, and everything was just going to work it out from there.
Rachel:
And Michelle, tragically, your husband took his own life.
Michelle:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Rachel:
Did you want to talk a little bit more about that?
Michelle:
Yes. So, as I was saying, after he sat the FASEA exam last year, there was an episode which I could probably just put it down to almost a burnout. In a sense, wasn't diagnosed, he went to the doctors, and would sit several tests, but he thought he was actually physically sick, and he's still, to this day, he would say that he was physically sick. But now, looking back in retrospect, I know it was probably the start of the process that led to him doing what he did. But after we took a break, and all of that, and he got better, he was all fine. And I was like, "Yeah, it's the end of it. Maybe he was just physically sick." Then everything was fine for a good six months. We went overseas for Christmas, and came back. My son had started school, so everything was fine. Everything was happy.
Michelle:
And then, exactly one week before ... So, he took his own life on a Thursday. The Thursday before, I was away for work, and I came back. And usually Friday, nights used to be the night we'll go out for drink and have dinner. And he was a little bit out of sorts, because there was a compliance check coming up. And he always used to get absolutely frustrated with those compliance checks, because no matter how well his files are kept, no matter how well he did, was always something wrong with it, in the views of the compliance people. And he just knew that there was always a big pressure for him, but it was a pressure that he always used to be able to deal with it through the experience over the years. But at that particular one, he was just not quite right.
Michelle:
I don't know what trigger it, what was the issue. And we sat down together on Saturday, and I help him through it, making sure that all the files are up to date, and everything was fine. He was so detailed and thorough, and it said to me, he was almost like I could say ... Was almost paranoid about missing things. But we went through everything. There was nothing missing. Everything was perfectly in place, and then, he calmed down, but he going to Sydney on the following Monday for a peer 2 day, for his dealership group. So, it was not unusual that he would work on Sunday, or the lead up to it, it had to be a couple of days away from the office, which he did. And then, he came back from Sydney on Tuesday night, late. So, I hardly saw him, I just said goodnight. And I was already in bed by the time he got home.
Michelle:
And then, on Wednesday, life just went on as normal, but he was just out of sorts, very, very out of sorts. And I had tried to have a conversation with him, and he put it down to work pressure. Work was being really tough. There's a lot of compliance, a lot of demand. And he was just not feeling that he could keep up with it. And then, we made a plan. We sat down and we made a plan to ... I was going to take a week off work to help him get ahead a little bit. We were going to potentially hire someone else to support him in the office, because he's always been a bit of a social butterfly, and having just an employee away from the office remotely, I don't think was very good for his mental health either. Was good for the cost savings, but not so good for his mental health.
Michelle:
We had a good chat on Saturday night. We had a brief chat on Thursday morning. Again, I checked him, make sure he was all right. I told him to go for drive, and relax, and gave him a cuddle and a kiss, and it was the last time I saw him.
Rachel:
I'm so sorry to hear these things. It's truly upsetting. Michelle, you've spoken quite a bit about the pressures that he faced, and you've spoken about the pressures of examinations, and study, and compliance. How does some of these pressures affect you and your family?
Michelle:
We just didn't get to see him. That's not quite right. We got to see him, but his mind was always wandering, and his mind was always into the business. As I mentioned before, he was very committed. He just wanted to do the right thing, and just wanted to see his clients to be happy, and his clients to achieve their goals. But he always found really troubling that so many things will get on the way of him being able to do that freely ... Literally with the best interest of their clients at heart. So, I think the biggest impact for us ... First of all, he's not here anymore. That's probably the hugest, biggest impact, and that pain will never go away, but through the process, and I'll be very honest, because I've always had quite demanding jobs, myself. It's amazing how much of that you just put it down to work pressures, and that you just assume that people can work through them. I never, in my wildest dreams, I would think there was an underlying mental health condition that would lead him to do what he's done.
Rachel:
Now, Michelle, both during your husband's struggle and after his passing, what support did you receive from the industry?
Michelle:
Well, during his struggle, nothing, because we didn't even know he was struggling, apart from being pressured, but we have so many friends in the industry, and everyone was suffering from similar pressures. So, doing, not much, because as I said, we didn't know there was pressures that need addressing. Afterwards, from the industry itself ... So, his dealership group has been absolutely amazing to us, helped us organize the business, keep the business ticking along, assisted us on the selling of the business, because I didn't want it to keep it. And they've been amazing support in that sense.
Michelle:
So, very practical support from the dealership group. Also, the insurance companies that he had policies with were very helpful and very upfront. So, from a practical sense, they've been absolutely incredible. And I think when something like this happen, at the start ... It's funny to think of that in that way, but you don't need emotional support, because nothing can support you emotionally in their time. What you need is practical support. So, I was very grateful for the people that were involved in just at least taking that pressure of the business, and keeping that part ticking along until we sorted out what we were going to do with it.
Rachel:
And what would be one tip you would have for any advisers out there, who might be struggling at the moment?
Michelle:
Ask for help. It's hard. It is damn hard, because in the last nine months, I had to ask a lot of help, myself to a lot of people. But what people don't realise is that probably, the only problem in the world that there isn't a solution for, is death. Everything else, you can solve in one way or the other, but you most likely won't be able to solve it on your own. And it doesn't have to be your wife. Doesn't have to be your friends. Doesn't have to be a doctor. Can be anyone. Can be lifeline. They have amazing support. They have amazing organisations with support out there, but it has to come back to you, and put your hand up and say, "Listen, I am struggling here, and I need some help."
Rachel:
Is there anything that you feel that the industry could have done differently?
Michelle:
The industry itself? I'm not sure, probably wasn't as involved in that. I just find that with the changes that came through ... I think the changes itself in the long-term, it's a good thing for the industry ... Most of them, not all of them, most of them. I don't think it's what they've implemented, it's how they've implemented, is more of the issue. So, I think some more thought through the consequences ... Not to the big banks, not to the big guys, to the little guys, the ones that they're earning their money, and actually making a real impact to their client's lives. They have totally lost sight of those people. And that's what hurts.
Rachel:
I want to leave with a final question, and just wanted to see, what are some of the things that you and your family are doing now to help deal with your loss?
Michelle:
So, for the first six months was ... Is still a bit of a blur. I don't even know, because it was in between sorting out estates, selling the business, and getting all of those things organised has been really hard. Probably, the last three months, it's where way we really focused on getting ourselves back on our feet. For me, in particular, it has been focusing on my son, and make sure he's well in the first place. And then, looking after myself. Of course, the fact that he had some insurance in place has helped us give us some breathing space.
Michelle:
It's very important to make sure everyone's got that under control, and up-to-date as much as possible. Having a will in place as well, that has been great help, because you can just go to someone and say, "Can you just please do what this document says?" Instead of you having to second guess yourself all the time. For me mainly it’s about, I've been doing a lot of exercising, eat well, and just trying to focus on my own wellbeing, and of my son, and try to live the present, because there's no point about worrying about other future, this point in time.
Rachel:
Was there anything else that you would like to share with the audience?
Michelle:
It's that what I said before. If you're struggling, put your hand up, ask for help, make yourself known before it's too late. You'll be amazed by how many people would just come and help, and how much help and support you will receive in drop of a hat. People are very kind, but people are busy, and they don't necessarily notice you, because everyone is just running around like crazy. So, you have to be the person that says, "Listen, I'm not well, can you please help me?" And people will help you.
Rachel:
I really want to thank you today for having the courage to talk to us.
Michelle:
Thank you.
Rachel:
As an industry, I don't want us to avoid this topic any longer. If Michelle is brave enough to talk about her personal experience, then I want the listener to be brave enough to hear it. At MetLife, we are committing to not only bring awareness to the pressure financial advisers are facing, but to bring tools and assistance to those who might be struggling. Please help us to open conversations, and talk to those around you, and ensure that we unite as an industry to avoid any other families having to go through what Michelle and her family have had to endure. If you or someone you know, need someone to talk to, you can call lifeline on 13-11-14, or Beyond Blue on 1300-22-46-36. I thank you for listening in today.
Michelle:
Thank you.
Disclaimer:
You've been listening to the MetLife podcast. To find out how you can partner with us, please visit metlife.com.au. This podcast has been prepared by MetLife Insurance Limited, and intended for advisor, and internal use only, and should not be provided to clients, or attributed to MetLife in any advice provided. This material is intended to provide general information only, and has been prepared without taking into account any particular person's objectives, financial situation, or needs. Any general information contained within, or given during podcast is not intended to be investment, or financial advice, nor recommendation to invest in the financial products, or undertake any particular strategy, or cost. In accessing this podcast, you agree to MetLife's podcast disclaimer terms found at metlife.com.au.
